Re: Tapak Bersejarah lembah Bujang '' Site 11 '' dimusnahkan

by yaminz Tue 03 Dec 2013, 12:48 pm

marc_zman wrote:
yaminz wrote:
marc_zman wrote:
yaminz wrote:
alphawolf wrote:
yaminz wrote:
marc_zman wrote:
yaminz wrote:boleh guna akta nie;

Akta pengambilan tanah 1960 kalo kerajaan negeri serius la...
soalan wa pulak.. apa pasal kerajaan negeri sebelum ini tak ambil alih atau wartakan site tu sebagai kawasan sejarah dsb?
soalan pulak... nape pada tahun 1970 an, kerajaan negeri xwartakan ms candu tu dbangunkan smula... jeng2...
Pasal candu tak sepower LSD...tahun 70an kannn
yup... ekekeke... silap spelling error...candi...

rasa nyer xpenah dgazetkan... kalo x boleh jadi tpt mnarik tok industri perlancongan... tp berselerak plak, payah gak nak jaga...
kalu x silap wa mmg ada kawasan yg dah digazetkan.. & sowi to say Ostadz.. mmg dah lama wujud Muzium Arkeologi Lembah Bujang.. wa berani bet yg hang tak pernah sampai lagik kan? no prob.. org Malaysia mmg camtu.. kalu muzium negara sendirik mmg tarak heran.. cuba kalu kat negara luor.. sanggup perabih duit tuk masuk

& kalu wa tak silap sekitar pertengahan 2000an ke haper.. diorg ada jumpa kawasan baru.. sebab tu kalu korang lalu jalan raya dari tanjung dawai ke sg petani ikut area merbok tu.. korang leh nampak ada kerja-kerja arkeologi kat satu ladang kelapa sawit.. mmg korang xkan miss punyer.. masih dlm kawasan kelapa sawit tapi kat tepi jalan jer
takat nei penah pegi muzium negara, muzium di melaka, muzium d sarawak da byk kali masuk... muzium2 tpt len, lum penah pegi lagi... xpenah lak abiskan duit pegi muzium kat luar negara lg... ekekeke

cadangan, bila da jumpa tapak2 nie, patut dpindahkan terus k muzium arkeologi boleh btambah2 koleksi,,,,
Minz.. FYI.. apa yg hang tgk kat muzium tu hanya ciput jer dari keseluruhan yg ada.. ada website yg kata kawasan tingglan sejarah Lembah Bujang ni 200km persegi.. ada yg kata dah sampai 400km persegi.. wallahua'lam.. tapi mmg luas

dan kena amik kira juga yg sesetengah penemuan baru tu berada di atas tanah hak milik persendirian.. tak leh main harung jer weh

Lg bagus, boleh wat penampatan smula bg stiap pnemuan tu, bayangkan kalo atur elok2 siap wat tapak dgn teratur boleh mnarik pelancong ke situ... xperlu pegi byk tmpt yg jauh2 pulak tu...

kalo xsilap la, penemuan bersejarah nie kerajaan ada hak k atas nyer wlupun brada hak milik persendirian; tp xtau la mungkin batu kot tp kalo kota emas k mungkin len cerita kot... ekekeke

by marc_zman Tue 03 Dec 2013, 12:49 pm

yaminz wrote:
sbab baru skrg org ramai mula concern apa yg berlaku, kalo dulu sikap xambil kesah... skrg smua da ambil kesah esp da ada portable media, xkira sapa mulakan; individu k, politik k, ngo k...

kat situlah buruknya perangai masyarakat kita.. tu lah silapnya.. amik kisah bila sebab benda benda disensasikan... kalu tak.. langsung xmo amik tau.. mula concern sebab orang politik berbicara.. cuba kalu ahli arkeologi yg berbunyi? ada nak masuk online news tu? ada sesapa nak kisah?

by yaminz Tue 03 Dec 2013, 12:55 pm

marc_zman wrote:
yaminz wrote:
sbab baru skrg org ramai mula concern apa yg berlaku, kalo dulu sikap xambil kesah... skrg smua da ambil kesah esp da ada portable media, xkira sapa mulakan; individu k, politik k, ngo k...

kat situlah buruknya perangai masyarakat kita.. tu lah silapnya.. amik kisah bila sebab benda benda disensasikan... kalu tak.. langsung xmo amik tau.. mula concern sebab orang politik berbicara.. cuba kalu ahli arkeologi yg berbunyi? ada nak masuk online news tu? ada sesapa nak kisah?

abis tu xkan ahli politik makan angin jea... at least buat keja...
bila ada pmula, smua akan ikut serta, ahli arkeologi pun da bising sama... kalo x, dok diam jea la...

by marc_zman Tue 03 Dec 2013, 1:02 pm

yaminz wrote:
marc_zman wrote:
yaminz wrote:
sbab baru skrg org ramai mula concern apa yg berlaku, kalo dulu sikap xambil kesah... skrg smua da ambil kesah esp da ada portable media, xkira sapa mulakan; individu k, politik k, ngo k...

kat situlah buruknya perangai masyarakat kita.. tu lah silapnya.. amik kisah bila sebab benda benda disensasikan... kalu tak.. langsung xmo amik tau.. mula concern sebab orang politik berbicara.. cuba kalu ahli arkeologi yg berbunyi? ada nak masuk online news tu? ada sesapa nak kisah?
abis tu xkan ahli politik makan angin jea... at least buat keja...
bila ada pmula, smua akan ikut serta, ahli arkeologi pun da bising sama... kalo x, dok diam jea la...

ada beza dgn buat keje yg mmg buat keje.. dgn buat keje yg bermotifkan politik

by yaminz Tue 03 Dec 2013, 1:06 pm

marc_zman wrote:
yaminz wrote:
marc_zman wrote:
yaminz wrote:
sbab baru skrg org ramai mula concern apa yg berlaku, kalo dulu sikap xambil kesah... skrg smua da ambil kesah esp da ada portable media, xkira sapa mulakan; individu k, politik k, ngo k...

kat situlah buruknya perangai masyarakat kita.. tu lah silapnya.. amik kisah bila sebab benda benda disensasikan... kalu tak.. langsung xmo amik tau.. mula concern sebab orang politik berbicara.. cuba kalu ahli arkeologi yg berbunyi? ada nak masuk online news tu? ada sesapa nak kisah?
abis tu xkan ahli politik makan angin jea... at least buat keja...
bila ada pmula, smua akan ikut serta, ahli arkeologi pun da bising sama... kalo x, dok diam jea la...
ada beza dgn buat keje yg mmg buat keje.. dgn buat keje yg bermotifkan politik

da standard politk kat malaysia, wat camne... :

by mumuchi Tue 03 Dec 2013, 3:42 pm

Jangan terover politik aaa...

by HangPC2 Tue 03 Dec 2013, 4:42 pm

We didn’t know significance of the stones, says Lembah Bujang builder

By Ida Lim

December 3, 2013

Tapak Bersejarah lembah Bujang '' Site 11 '' dimusnahkan - Page 2 E1pb

Tapak Bersejarah lembah Bujang '' Site 11 '' dimusnahkan - Page 2 E1pb

Locals looking around the site where candi number 11 once stood in Lembah Bujang, Kedah, December 2, 2013. — Picture by K.E. Ooi

KUALA LUMPUR, Dec 3 — Hit by brickbats for bulldozing the remains of an ancient Hindu civilisation in Lembah Bujang in Kedah, a housing developer for the area has claimed to be unaware of the site’s historical significance.

Saw Guan Keat, project manager for Bandar Saujana Sdn Bhd, was reported in The Star newspaper as saying the company would have left candi number 11 alone if they had known the stones on the land were the temple ruins of a once-great civilisation.

“We had a site visit before land clearing started in September. We saw a stone structure (the candi). We did not know what it was, ” Saw was quoted saying.

He added: “If we had known the structure was a historical site, we would not have cleared it.”

According to Saw, the company had learnt of the stones’ significance only through news reports, by which time it was too late as its contractors had already discarded the demolished structure as debris.

He related that Bandar Saujana had taken over the development project for the area from another builder, adding that the project had been approved by the Sungai Petani municipal council in the mid 1990s.

Saw said Bandar Saujana had twice carried out land searches at the Kedah Land Office — on January 14 this year before purchasing eight plots of land from the previous developer and again on July 30.

On both occasions, the land search showed that there were no encumbrances for the land, which Bandar Saujana subsequently purchased in February this year.

A local archaeologist has also said the 8th century candi can be rebuilt if drawing plans of the temple are available.

“ As long as we have the plans, we can reconstruct it, ” Prof Dr Mokhtar Saidin, who is the director of USM Centre for Global Archaeological Research (CGAR), was quoted saying.

He reportedly said that the candi could be rebuilt using laterite and pebbles found in Lembah Bujang if those materials were originally used.

Tapak Bersejarah lembah Bujang '' Site 11 '' dimusnahkan - Page 2 Qvzt

Tapak Bersejarah lembah Bujang '' Site 11 '' dimusnahkan - Page 2 Qvzt

Tourism and Culture Minister Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz said the National Heritage Act 2005 could be used to impose a stop work order even if private property is involved.

The Kedah state government has since asked the developer to stop the land clearing pending investigations into the issue, which it has complied with.

Lembah Bujang is the richest archaeological site in Malaysia and the home of the oldest man-made structure recorded in Southeast Asia — a clay brick monument dating back to 110AD.

Excavations on the site have also uncovered jetty remains, iron smelting sites and relics with Hindu and Buddhist influences that point towards a Hindu-Buddhist kingdom there as early as 110 CE.

British colonists first discovered the ancient ruins in the 1840s and ever since, archaeologists from the world over have visited the site to conduct extensive research.

In 1974, the then Museum Department commissioned a team of archaeologists to reconstruct 10 of the candi where four were relocated to the current museum grounds while the rest were left in situ.

Since then, researchers and archaeologists have found more candi located all over the Lembah Bujang and a recent study by Universiti Sains Malaysia (USM) revealed that there are 127 archaeological sites in Kedah with over 90 candi in Lembah Bujang.

Many sites are still in the midst of being excavated and a team from the USM Centre for Global Archaeological Research (CGAR) also has a base there excavating and researching some of the sites in the valley

- The Malay Mail -

by marc_zman Tue 03 Dec 2013, 4:46 pm

mumuchi wrote:Jangan terover politik aaa...

dun worry lor

by yaminz Tue 03 Dec 2013, 4:48 pm

marc_zman wrote:
mumuchi wrote:Jangan terover politik aaa...
dun worry lor

ya lorrr... ekekekeke... tarak minat politik maaa...

by HangPC2 Tue 03 Dec 2013, 4:51 pm

Taman Lembah Bujang Utama

9/12/2008

Tapak Bersejarah lembah Bujang '' Site 11 '' dimusnahkan - Page 2 B8ni

Taman Lembah Bujang Utama (Phase 5) is another mix development project by Bandar Saujana Sdn Bhd. It is located just beside MRSM, Bujang. The project consists of single storey shop house, single storey bungalow, single storey semi-detached, single storey terrace A & B and low cost terrace.

The project is expected to be launched in beginning of 2009.

http://bandarsaujana.com.my/

by sajareg Tue 03 Dec 2013, 6:25 pm

Aku pernah pergi yang museum lembah bujang tu kalau tak silap aku, tak banyak tempat boleh nak tengok benda buatan manusia beribu tahun kat Malaysia .

by HangPC2 Tue 03 Dec 2013, 7:52 pm

Kedah Yang Dilawati Oleh Abu Dulaf 940 Tahun Masehi

Dalam tahun 940, Abu Dulaf al-Muhalhil berasal dari Bukhara singgah sendiri di Kalaha (Kedah) dan meriwayatkan bahawa:

"Apabila saya sampai di Kalah, saya dapati tempatnya amat indah dengan tembok-tembok kota, taman-taman bungan dan aliran mata-mata air dari bumi. Saya lihat lombong bijih timah yang tidak ada tolok bandingnya dalam dunia ini. Di dalam kota ada tukang-tukang membuat pedang "qala'I" iaitu pedang Hindi yang tulen Seperti di Negara China, terdapat orang-orang yang tidak menyembelih ternakan yang mereka makan. Penduduknya mempunyai sistem keadilan dan mempunyai penjara serta hukuman denda".

"Mereka makan gandum, buah kurma, sayur-sayuran yang ditimbang bila dijual dan roti yang dilonggok-longgok sahaja bila dijual. Mereka tidak mempuyai hamam tetapi mandi di sungai-sungai yang mengalir deras. Wang mereka ialah dirham perak Wang dipanggil 'fahri'. Mereka memakai kain 'al firand' (sutera) yang sangat mahal seperti orang-orang China dan menyebut Maharaja China di dalam Khutbah Jumaat dan qiblat Raja Kalah pun mengadap ke arah Maharaja itu "

(Paul Wheatley, 1961:217)

Abu Dulaf menyebut orang-orang di Kedah telah pandai menggunakan tepung gandum, buah kurma, roti dan sayur seperti orang-orang Arab. Tergambar bahawa kebudayaan Arab telah sedikit sebanyak terserap dikalangan orang-orang Melayu di sini. Mengikut Paul Wheatley dalam nota kecilnya di muka surat yang sama, dirham perak yang dipanggil "Fahri" itu ialah matawang yang digunakan di Khurasan, Utara Iran. Di Kedah dipraktikkan sistem 'barter' atau sistem hebah barang dengan barang dan "fahri" itu digunakan ketika amat perlu sahaja. Pedang "qala'i" yang ditempah di Kedah menjadi barangan eksport yang dikenali oleh orang-orang Arab sebagai "al-sayf al-Hind"

Abu Dulaf menimbulkan kekeliruan apabila menyebut bahawa Raja Kalah "Menyebut nama Maharaja China di dalam Khutbah Jumaat dan qiblat Raja Kalah pun Mengadap ke arah Maharaja itu"

Abu Dulaf keliru melihat penduduk di Kedah yang beragama Islam tidak menyebut nama Khalifah Al-Muttaqi (940 - 944) yang baru bersemayam di Damsyik pada masa itu di dalam Khutbah mereka. Berita begitu belum sampai ke sini lagi. Mungkin orang Kedah menyebut nama Maharaja Sribuza (Sri Wijaya) atau lain yang didengarnya sebagai nama Maharaja China.

Maksud qiblat mengarah ke negara China ialah qiblat Raja Kalah atau Kedah dan bukan orang bersembahyang. Abu Dulaf memungkinkan bahawa agama Islam belum lagi dianuti oleh Raja Kedah sungguhpun rakyatnya telah Islam.

Sources : http://www.mykedah2.com/

by HangPC2 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 12:50 pm

Artikel dari seorang India,Sharmalan Thevar yang menempelak saudara Indianya sendiri dalam kes perebutan hak Lembah Bujang dan juga menempelak sikap orang Melayu sendiri yang tak mahu ambil kisah pasal warisan nenek moyang mereka yang boleh ditelusuri usianya sekitar abad ke 8 Masihi

Bujang Valley & Malaysian Indians

Bujang Valley is an ancient archeological site in the northern Malaysian state of Kedah. It contains archeological evidence and structures that shows the ancient Hindu-Buddhist heritage of the state. The temples are known as chandi. The chandis even resemble sacrificial altars.

Recently, a not so smart developer demolished a particular chandi believed to be 1200-1300 years old (8th century AD). Suddenly many self proclaimed Indian champions of Bujang Valley became very agitated. MIC and Hindu Sangam became very upset. Indians of Facebook were busy condemning the government for their in action.

All because some Indians claimed that INDIAN HERITAGE was destroyed. Because these champions thought their grandfathers and great grandfathers built it.

The chandis were built even before the time of Rajaraja Chola or his son Rajendra Chola. Rajendra Chola attacked ancient Kedah in 11th century AD. That is a few hundred years after the chandis were built. Furthermore, he sent a military expedition but neither he nor his father personally participated in it.

But our beloved hardcore Indians thinks that Rajendra Chola came here, ate Nasi Lemak bungkus and left.

I was hurt too when I read the news. Not because of any Indian taglines but simply because I love to dwell in history. Furthermore, Malaysian government should preserve the history of this land. Malaysia was after all a Hindu-Buddhist domain before the arrival of Islam. The Hindu-Buddhist past of this land must never be erased.

The ancient Malays, I mean the ancestors of the real Malays, not the Melayu Celup or Constitutional Malays, were the ones who built these chandis. They would have gained the knowledge from the Indians. After all, didn't they learn religion from the Indians ? Didn't they use their language ? Didn't they use their writing scripts ?

You see, we Indians of Malaysia have a problem. We think that anything linked with Hinduism must have been created by our direct ancestors. It is true that Hinduism was introduced to Southeast Asia by the people of India. But that does not mean every single chandi was built by them.

Some of the ancient Indians who came here would have intermarried with some hot local Malay girls in wet sarong and lived happily ever after. Their descendants would have just remained here and became ancestors of some of the locals.

These ancient Indians who settled down here and their descendants are not the direct ancestors of the present day Malaysian Indians.

We have been here for probably around 200 years only. Anything beyond that goes back to India. We can still trace our roots to some village in India but none of us can trace a continuous lineage that lived here for 2000 years.

The oldest community to live here among the present day Malaysian Indians are the Malacca Chetties. They are Tamils of the merchant Chetti caste. They came here during the Malacca empire era and lived here since then. They did not go back to India. Some would have intermarried the locals (again hot girl in wet sarong) but they didn't end up loosing their ' Chettiness ' for the last 500 years.

But your grandfather and my grandfather settled down here during British rule. Although their ancestors would have traveled here earlier, they never stayed permanently. So how can we claim that our direct ancestors were the ones who built and lived along the chandis in Kedah ???

Because if it was our ancestors who built it and lived here permanently, we would have been a ' rojak Malay ' by now and not a Tamil speaking Hindu Malaysian Indian.

I am sorry to say this but it looks like most of you Malaysian Indians don't seem to know your own roots. You don't know which caste you belong to, you don't even know the name of your ancestral village in India, then why on earth simply say things which are not true ?

A person who knows his roots very well will know the caste and village his taata and paati came from. He will not simply lay claims to a heritage which was built by another race.

To make the problem worst, the modern Malaysian Malays are not speaking up to defend what their ancestors built. This is because their ancestors were not Muslims like them. Their ancestors were Hindus and Buddhist.

So the general Malay public which has been coated with Arabic culture does not seem to give a damn about their own Hindu-Buddhist heritage in this land. They keep speaking about heritage which is Islamic and forget about their pre-Islamic glorious past.

Again, I am only referring to the pure Malays, not any Malay wannabe like the not so honorable Ridhuan Tee Abdullah who has roots in China.

The Malays should learn from their cousins in Indonesia. Despite being the most populous Muslim country in the world, Indonesia accepts and preserves the Hindu-Buddhist past of the country. They don't live in denial.

And to my fellow Malaysian Indians, I think for as long as you don't know your own roots, you should not even bother opening your mouth about other ancient heritage.

You cannot take care of your own heritage, why make so much of noise for something which was never yours ?

End of tantrum.....

by sajareg Thu 05 Dec 2013, 8:30 pm

Dia nak kasi the point across tu tak payah la nak tambah perisa.

melayu celup la, riduan tee la, general malays dont give a fk about hindu-budhism history la.

Ni kes nak selamat diri sendiri la ni, kurang2 dalam tulisan ada kutuk kaum lain kira fair la tu.

Nak jaga semua tapak candi bukan murah, bersepah kalau tak silap aku tapak2 ni kat kedah.

by HangPC2 Fri 06 Dec 2013, 2:54 am

bagi saya apa yang dia cakap tuh betul... bukan kejadian pertama berlaku dekat kedah... contoh bekas istana batu merong mahawangsa dirobohkan untuk membina menara telekomunikasi di kaki gunung jerai...

kedua kawah api untuk di jadi sebagai Rumah api di gunung jerai turut musnah...... batu peringatan pengislaman negeri kedah terbiar dan musnah.. Pintu gerbang kotas star (pintu kacapuri) dimusnahkan untuk memberi laluan kepada pembangunan yang ada cuba repika sahaja... Istana raja bersiong ditinggal tanpa penjagaan dan dijadikan tempat pembuangan sampah....

by HangPC2 Fri 06 Dec 2013, 2:55 am

ambil contoh terdekat lah.... tinggalan perang dunia kedua pun terbiar macam pillbox dekat kelantan tuh...

by the_killer Fri 06 Dec 2013, 4:50 pm

aku boleh katakan yang candi ni bukan dibina oleh orang india walaupun ia berdasarkan hindu kerana candi ni dibina berdasarkan budaya melayu, orang india di malaysia begitu berat berbanding melayu kerana candi ni ada unsur2 hindu pada masa yang sama mereka beragama hindu

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