PROTON INSPIRA - Smart Guys Get It!

tin wrote:

tj wrote:

tin wrote:

tj wrote:gambar kat siggy tu cerita apa?
hari tu tengok apa nama ntah,machete..

itu citer desperado. best+ lawak giler.

mamat tuh ler hero machete. ada best ka itu citer?

untuk abe uncle tin x boley tengok,manyak aksi ganas dan kurang kain... tambah2 orang bujang
ok la cita tu,takla teruk sangat kualiti dia..

ahahahaha... psikologi gostan nampak

kawe straight kat cita tu je,takda tuju sapa2
dah betoi cita tu 18 PL..
kawe bukan psykologist(camna eja dia ni )

ok, ok, ok... wa caya lu

tin wrote:ok, ok, ok... wa caya lu

wahh.. sudaa berkesan ka terbalikkan psikotherapist tu?


hahaa.. spam je banyak kawe ni,jom borak warung nuh..

tj wrote:

atreyudevil wrote:nampaknya brochure sudah leak

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ni kat lyn!

79k for basic 1.8cc.
ok x ven?

TQ atre..

79k++ utk versi manual 1.8... auto lebih lagi tuh... 1.8 nihler x pasti enjin dia camner coz design body utk 2.0... hmmm

kan mmg ada mitsu lancer pakai enjin 1.8. tp mivec je, N/A.

huhuhu... tak mampu wa nak beli.

pcboss wrote:kan mmg ada mitsu lancer pakai enjin 1.8. tp mivec je, N/A.

nope, utk 1.8 dia pki enjin GEMA

venez wrote:

pcboss wrote:kan mmg ada mitsu lancer pakai enjin 1.8. tp mivec je, N/A.

nope, utk 1.8 dia pki enjin GEMA

ok tak enjin ni,tak under power ka?

Ok je, engine Mitsu tu, bukan engine Proton!

venez wrote:

pcboss wrote:kan mmg ada mitsu lancer pakai enjin 1.8. tp mivec je, N/A.

nope, utk 1.8 dia pki enjin GEMA

Untuk 2.0 GT series skarang pun pakai GEMA. Basic engine sama, finishing terpulang pd mitsu, hyundai n chrysler. 4B11T yang boh kat lancer evo pon based dr GEMA gak.

2.0 pakai mivec!
kalo ikut depa aa! 4b10

yup, N/A pakai MIVEC only, Turbo charged also got MIVEC. Semua GEMA based engine untuk lancer series 1.5, 1.8 & 2.0 ada MIVEC.

woooo!
tq for info pcbos

btw, aku tak brapa mahir sgt pasal engine nih, tp tadi member salesman proton dia kata yang
engine ni pakai satu je timing chain (kot tp bukan timing belt) dan suma dia control dari engine sampai la ekon!
dan selagi engine tu jalan selagi tula valid benda tu tak payah ganti!

pcboss wrote:yup, N/A pakai MIVEC only, Turbo charged also got MIVEC. Semua GEMA based engine untuk lancer series 1.5, 1.8 & 2.0 ada MIVEC.

ic2, thanx for the info pcboss

Proton Inspira Engine Specification :

4B10 Specifications
Engine type Inline 4 cylinder DOHC 16v, MIVEC
Displacement 1.8 L (1798 cc)
Bore 86 mm
Stroke 77.4 mm
Compression ratio 10.5:1
Fuel system ECI multiple
Peak power 105 kW (143 PS) at 6000 rpm
Peak torque 177 Nm (130 ftlbf) at 4250 rpm

4B11 Specifications
Engine type Inline 4 cylinder DOHC 16v, MIVEC
Displacement 2.0 L (1998 cc)
Bore 86 mm
Stroke 86 mm
Compression ratio 10:1
Fuel system ECI multiple
Peak power 108-114 kW (147-155 PS) at 6000 rpm
Peak torque 198 Nm (146 ftlbf) at 4250 rpm

Paultan Test Drive

We were fortunate enough to be invited to a preview of the new Proton P3-90A, which is supposed to be a replacement for the Proton Waja, and positioned above the Proton Persona in the Proton product line-up. It’s no secret by now that this new model is based on the current generation Mitsubishi Lancer.

Look after the jump for our first impressions based on the preview drive.

The car will be ‘soft launched’ tomorrow, which means the name will be unveiled and bookings will be opened. There will be 3 models – a 1.8 liter manual, a 1.8 liter CVT and a 2.0 liter CVT. All three models use Mitsubishi engines from the 4B family, with the 1.8 liter using the 4B10 and the 2.0 liter using the 4B11. Of course, many of you probably know the name of the car already as sales brochures have been scanned and unleashed onto the internet, possibly by sales personnel eager to secure bookings tomorrow.

The case for a new Proton Waja replacement

Proton’s most expensive car right now (other than special editions and the Perdana) is the Proton Exora, which retails at RM76,998 for the Exora MC H-Line. There are various reasons for Proton to introduce a new Waja. Right now, anyone who manages to break beyond the RM60k affordability barrier for a passenger sedan will probably step up to the RM80k to RM100k range, which are currently dominated by the two Japanese brands and complemented by various other makes.

The new P3-90A will allow Proton to offer a model to those wanting to upgrade to something better and bigger than the current Saga, Persona or Waja that they have. It will allow Proton to increase its customer retention as the budget of the customer increases.

And of course, Proton has to serve the Malaysian government, the government’s fleet manager SPANCO, and other fleet buyers such as the police.

Badge engineering a Mitsubishi product – have we gone backwards?

Since news first broke of a new Waja replacement car based on a Mitsubishi Lancer, Proton has undergone much criticism as consumers are perceiving this as the national car company stepping backwards. This is understandable as most laymen who do not track the auto industry as closely as enthusiasts would not know that the modern trend is to badge engineer your non-core models (or even your core models!) to save on development costs so that cash can be focused on core models.

What they know is that Proton started off rebadging Mitsubishis – the Lancer in particular – and now they are back to rebadging a Lancer. In their minds, they’re probably asking what is the point of a national carmaker then, especially one that is perceived to be the reason that the Japanese brands that they want to buy are so expensive?

Datuk Syed Zainal told us at the post-drive media roundtable that it was not an easy decision for Proton to decide to use a reengineered Lancer for the new P3-90A. Not only will the rakyat grill them but there will surely be drama in the Parliament. However, it was a business decision, and a rational one.

Here’s why – at the recent Vios launch, UMW Toyota announced that it was aiming to sell 2,700 units of the Vios a month. The Vios starts at a lower price than the P3-90A – it has a smaller engine and a smaller B-segment body compared to the P3-90A’s C-segment body and 1.8 liter as well as 2.0 liter engines. The amount of consumers who will have accessibility/affordability of car will be lower, and it also has to compete with plenty of competitors such as the Kia Forte along with the B-segment Japanese makes.

Proton aims to sell less than 2,000 units a month of the new Waja replacement. According to DSZ, it would not be wise to invest a big sum of money to develop a new model for the Waja replacement’s segment and price range for a relatively low sales volume. Proton cannot repeat the mistakes of its past, investing a huge amount of money to sell models that ended up not having a very high volume – it would take forever for the entire product to start turning a profit!

According to Datuk Syed Zainal, Proton intends to focus its R&D budget on its core models. Proton is still recovering from its “dark days” and the new management led by Datuk Syed Zainal and Datuk Nadzmi Salleh is still working hard to bring the company to where it once was. It needs to re-invest its precious profits into the high volume products which are cars like the Saga and the Persona replacement, which DSZ referred to as the Persona R. The Persona R is already under development and work on the next generation Saga has to start pretty soon if not already as the Saga will likely get its mid-life facelift end of this year or early next year.

This logic is not uncommon in the industry. Aston Martin is rebadging the Toyota iQ as the kind of car that Cygnet is not a core Aston Martin model. Dodge makes big American type of cars and it is not good with small B-segment cars thus it has rebadged the Hyundai Accent as the Dodge Attitude. Honda wasn’t very good at SUVs in the past so it rebadged a Land Rover Discovery Series I as an early Honda Crossroad before the CR-V ever existed. The modern Ford Ka shares platform with the modern Fiat 500, and Ford and Fiat do not share any stake in each other.

Volkswagen sells a large minivan in the US known as the Volkswagen Routan and it’s based on a Chrysler Town & Country, which is also sold as a Dodge as the Grand Caravan. Chrysler and Dodge are owned by the same company but Volkswagen has no shareholding connection with the American company. Coming back to Mitsubishi – they’ve supplied the i-MiEV electric car as well as the Mitsubishi Outlander to PSA Peugeot Citroen. The Outlander is sold as the Peugeot 4007 and the Citroen C-Crosser.

The Lancer-based Waja replacement is designed to be an interim model to fill in the gap for the need of a product in its segment without having to invest heavily. Proton intends for it to be a “place holder” model to keep Proton in a required market segment until it has the resources to develop a permanent solution to serve the segment. Development of the new P3-90A took 17 months compared to 24 months if developed internally. The local vendor ecosystem is also supported as Proton will start off with 40% local content shortly after launch, with the aims to increase it to about 65% within a year.

Proton shopped around for various cars to be considered as the base for the P3-90A and Mitsubishi was picked because they’ve been traditional partners for the last 25 years thus they already have some form of history together. The Perdana has stopped production in March 2010 BTW!

What are the differences between the P3-90A and the Lancer?

The entire front end has changed, with the Proton version carrying an “inverted” Lancer grille. The Proton version looks more similar to the original Lancer as compared to the Taiwanese market Lancer Fortis, which in my opinion had softened the look of the Lancer too much. Unlike the Taiwanese styling exercise, for the P3-90A the same reflector headlamps of the Lancer remains.

At the rear end, there is a new rear bumper that has an integrated diffuser-like design. Tail lamps are the same as the Lancer. The 2.0 CVT model gets a small bootlid spoiler to differentiate it from the 1.8 liter models. Speaking of models, while the Lancer only comes with a 2.0 liter engine mated to a CVT here in Malaysia with two trim levels – EX and GT, for Proton there are 3 variants, all with different engine and gearbox combinations as well as equipment levels.

The baseline model will be the 1.8L model with 143 PS and 177Nm of torque. This is mated to a 5-speed manual transmission. The mid-range model is also a 1.8L model but with a CVT transmission instead of a manual. The CVT on this model has a manual shift mode but only via the gear lever – there are no column mounted paddle shifts on this model. The top of the line does come with the paddle shifts, and has a 2.0L engine to match the CVT transmission. All of these engines are Mitsubishi GEMA 4B family engines, in which the base block are shared with Chrysler as well as Hyundai-Kia. I wrote quite a detailed article in the past about the 4B engines so you can refer to that story here: The new 4B11 Engine.

Mitsubishi did not allow Proton to touch the engine and the ECU of the Lancer, so everything is exactly the same as per supplied by Mitsubishi. But as Proton has changed the front end look of the car, it is able to do certain things such as install air guides for the transmission cooler, so that the CVT transmission fluid will be less likely to overheat. At the Lancer’s media drive years back, driving at very high speeds for prolonged periods of time (not something we’d do everyday to be honest) resulted in the gearbox heating up over a certain level which then resulted in the car cutting power and displaying an overheat warning on the multi-info display in order to protect the gearbox from being damaged.

Proton’s engineers were very well aware of this during their testing so they thought of a solution to fix it. Proton’s improvement of the airflow into the engine bay has given more air cooling for the transmission cooler, intending to help prevent the transmission from overheating.

Mitsubishi was also quite reluctant to let Proton do anything of the suspension of the car at first, so we almost got a vanilla Lancer without any “Lotus DNA” but later in the development process Proton managed to convince them to let them modify the settings. However it was already quite some time into the development process at that point, but the ride and handling engineers at Proton still managed to work their magic with the P3-90A. The absorber and spring settings are completely different, and there are also some small changes to the suspension bushes. Most of the work was on the roll and vertical rates. Proton matched all of this with 16 inch wheels wrapped with Continental CC5 silica compound tyres to maintain ride comfort. I’m sure everyone will be seriously curious to find out how much different a car can feel just with different suspension settings.

How does the P3-90A drive?

Naturally the 1.8 liter manual felt like the best driver’s car of the lot. The steering somehow felt more precise and had better feedback compared to the other models. According to Proton, the entire setup was designed mainly on the 1.8L manual version so that could be why it felt sharper, and it could also be that the 1.8L manual had a lighter front end compared to the models with the presumably heavier CVT transmission and even the larger engine block for the 2.0L model.

Ride comfort is better than the Lancer GT, because of the different tyres used, and the P3-90A just had a natural stability that’s hard to unsettle even at the extremes, and that helps the driver feel so much more confident in controlling the vehicle. I didn’t feel any issues with the 5 gear ratios of the manual transmission nor the way the gears slotted into position so I suppose if I don’t feel annoyed they should be properly spread. The clutch is also light and easy to control. I think the model I like the most is the manual.

The roads down from Genting and the Karak Highway blurred by as the long sweeping corners were taken at high speeds and I noticed that never once did I feel the car was about to lose control and there was only occasional times where the tyres started to protest. The Lancer GT drives well but a lot agree that its 18 inch Yokohama Advans contributing to a lot of the work while the P3-90A has its good ride and handling built into the chassis settings and once you have a good base from there it’s hard to go wrong! The Lancer GT feels a little stiffer and it has slightly less body roll than the P3-90A but the P3-90A remains very composed.

I didn’t get to drive the 1.8L CVT but we’ll bring you impressions of that after the official media test drive at the end of this month. The 2.0L CVT model didn’t feel very much different from the Lancer that we can already buy now, and you really have to get used to the way the CVT slips up the rev range without any progress before suddenly ‘locking up’ and increasing its forward momentum. CVTs are of course a good thing engineering-wise as it allows the engine to be in its most optimum rev range for the kind of driving you want but no doubt eager drivers are going to be using the paddle shifters a lot. The car’s progress just feels so much better in the virtual 6-speed manual mode although technically it’s less efficient to drive that way.

I can’t comment on the interior quality and texture yet as the cars were pre-production cars and the interior dashboard had all the necessary shapes but were “flat”. Think of it more like a mock up. I guess I’ll find out the actual interior look at the launch. There are four colour options – red, silver, white and black. I think they all look pretty good and I’m torn between the red and black.

In terms of safety features – ALL models have dual airbags and ABS brakes.

Booking opens tomorrow when the name is unveiled and booking fee is RM1,000.

If I missed anything you want to know feel free to ask in the comments and I’ll do my best to answer everything, if it’s something I can answer.

What is GEMA engine?

The new GEMA engine is a joint venture project between DaimlerChrysler, Hyundai and Mitsubishi. Hyundai has yet to use the GEMA engine in any of it’s cars, while DaimlerChrysler’s now-sold-off Chrysler used it as it’s flagship 2.0-2.4 liter.

The GEMA engine is called the 4B1x series in Mitsubishi terms, and the 2.0 liter model that we will see in the 2008 Lancer is the 4B11, with the Lancer Evolution getting the 4B11T. It is probably the first time a non-Sirius engine has been used in a Lancer Evolution. All Evolutions, from the Evo I to the Evo IX used some variant of the Sirius 4G63T, with the latest in the Evo IX getting MIVEC variable valve timing.

Lancer EngineThe 4B11 is a 4-cylinder DOHC engine with MIVEC variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust valves, making it somewhat equivalent to Toyota’s Dual VVT-i. In it’s US market application, it makes 152 horsepower at 6,000rpm (143 horsepower in California because of higher emission regulations) and 198Nm of torque at 4,250rpm, with 176Nm available from 2,500rpm. The 4B11 uses a new aluminium cylinder block as well as an aluminium cylinder head. A timing chain is used instead of a timing belt.

While most engines are usually either bore-biased (rev-happy) or stroke-biased (better torque), the new 4B11 is a “square” engine – it has a bore and stroke that both measure 86mm, giving a good balance of rev-happiness and good torque. It uses as compression ratio of 10.0:1, but can still use RON92 (87 AKI) fuel.

The MIVEC system uses valve overlap to reduce pumping losses under normal conditions, but under high engine speed conditions where maximum power is needed, intake valve closing time is retarded to allow for larger air volume. In a similar high load condition but at low engine speeds, intake valve closing is advanced instead, ensuring sufficient air volume, but exhaust valve opening is retarded to provide a higher expansion ratio and improved efficiency.

To ensure stable idling, valve overlap is eliminated during idle conditions. As previously mentioned, this version of MIVEC can adjust both intake and exhaust valves independently for maximum flexibility in valve control.

Mitsubishi has employed a 4-point inertial axis system with cylindrical hydraulic engine mounts on the left and right sides to help reduce engine vibration, ensuring smooth and quiet operation. On the right side mount where the engine is, a lightweight, high-rigidity squeeze-cast aluminium bracket helps reduce engine noise under acceleration. On the left side where the transmission is, a similar lightweight, high-rigidity plate bracket made of steel helps reduce gear noise. For the front and rear engine mounts, a custom-tuned insulator helps control both idle vibration and acceleration shock.

The engine can be mated to either a 5-speed manual gearbox or a CVT transmission with 6 virtual gears that are selectable using paddle shifts on the steering wheel. Mitsubishi picked 6 gears (in reality because they are unlimited to pick from, you could have 50 CVT virtual gears if you wanted) because it offered the best balance of ease of use, sporty driving, and flexible performance.

The 5-speed manual is an improvement over the old 5-speed transmission – the third and fourth gears now use double-cone synchronisers for smoother shifting and a new honing process was used to reduce noise. The gear ratios have also been adjusted to suit the torque curve of the new engine.

Lancer ShifterThe CVT transmission’s ratio range is from 2.349 to 0.394, with infinite variations in between, which gives wider ratios than the previous 4-speed auto that had a ratio spread of 2.842 to 0.712. A much higher achievable overdrive ensures good fuel economy and lower engine speed for highway cruising. The INVECS-III software in the CVT customises shift patterns on the fly to match the acceleration and brake patterns of the driver. If you select the L mode, the INVECS-III software shifts to allow for more engine braking if the car has to go down slopes.

Something alot of people miss when switching from conventional fixed ratio gearing to CVTs is the lurching feel when you floor the pedal from a stand still. The way a CVT-equipped car starts may be interpreted as sluggish by our minds – this is known as the rubber band effect. INVECS-III can simulate this lurching that the driver expects.

Anyway, this engine looks like a very modern engine with a gearbox combination that promises to be great for both city and highway driving. You’ve got ample amounts of torque from a low 2,500rpm for a comfortable city drive, plus a CVT to keep the revs at the sweet spot. You’ve got a good low maximum overdrive ratio of 0.394 for good highway fuel economy and a relaxed low engine speed cruise. Finally, for whenever you feel like driving spiritedly, there are the paddle shifters.

dapat 1 gambo dari emel!
Hep, kebenaran tatau aa
tp Persona yg di alter Mitsu akan jadik macam nih!

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atreyudevil wrote:dapat 1 gambo dari emel!
Hep, kebenaran tatau aa
tp Persona yg di alter Mitsu akan jadik macam nih!

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ho3, proton dh jadi bentuk mitsu semula... smart partnership yang akan menguntungkan both party... model camnih xder jual kt m'sia ker? aku dgr lepas nih enjin campro akan diengineer semula oleh R&D mitsu...

wa terpikir..

bila proton amik Lancer Mitsu pastu letak mekap sana sini pastu tolak kat local market dgn nama Proton Inspira dah kena kutuk..

camna plak reaksi masyarakat kita sekiranya Mitsu amik Proton Persona pastu letak mekap sana sini begitu begini and pastu tolak kat local tau international market.???

camne agaknyer ek...

kalo ikut member la, engine campro baru dah 60% under development mmg engine baru nih lebih kepada reverse engineering ngan lotus, tak tau la baki masuk ngan mitsu plak.

kira lepas ni proton yg kne mekap ngan mitsu ni akan masuk ke tempat yg mana proton takde masuk bawah market Mitsu, untung sama macam Mitsu dapat ngan Lancer, tp yg nyata Market Mitsu lagi besar dari Proton, jadi mmg untung!

marc_zman wrote:wa terpikir..

bila proton amik Lancer Mitsu pastu letak mekap sana sini pastu tolak kat local market dgn nama Proton Inspira dah kena kutuk..

camna plak reaksi masyarakat kita sekiranya Mitsu amik Proton Persona pastu letak mekap sana sini begitu begini and pastu tolak kat local tau international market.???

camne agaknyer ek...

he3, semua atas nama bro... repo yang diberikan oleh proton di local market reflect kepada penjualan di local n oberseas... mitsu sebaliknya, sana sini nama idup... x kira kete apa yang diambil n tweak oleh dorang, sure laku n xder komen...

venez wrote:he3, semua atas nama bro... repo yang diberikan oleh proton di local market reflect kepada penjualan di local n oberseas... mitsu sebaliknya, sana sini nama idup... x kira kete apa yang diambil n tweak oleh dorang, sure laku n xder komen...

tang sambutan tu mmg betoi laaa coz mitsu ader pengikut dia sendiri.. tang komen lak, for sure ader nyer.. cuma tahap kepanasan telinga tu jer mungkin berbeza... isk isk isk.. dah lama tak tengok citer Top Gear... apa laaaa komen diorang kalu ditest drive Proton/Mitsu Persona tu yer.???

Aku ingat kan Protong inspira pakai enjin gema mcm kat proton ckp hari tu rupernyer Mivec .. so saper lah confirm kan benda nie sebab aku ada terbaca dalam paper masa hari pembukaan tempahan baru2 nie yer ker .. kalau mcm tu best la

atreyudevil wrote:kalo ikut member la, engine campro baru dah 60% under development mmg engine baru nih lebih kepada reverse engineering ngan lotus, tak tau la baki masuk ngan mitsu plak.

kira lepas ni proton yg kne mekap ngan mitsu ni akan masuk ke tempat yg mana proton takde masuk bawah market Mitsu, untung sama macam Mitsu dapat ngan Lancer, tp yg nyata Market Mitsu lagi besar dari Proton, jadi mmg untung!

tu yg dengar cite persona & exora masuk south america bawah nama mitsu....

venez wrote:

atreyudevil wrote:dapat 1 gambo dari emel!
Hep, kebenaran tatau aa
tp Persona yg di alter Mitsu akan jadik macam nih!

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ho3, proton dh jadi bentuk mitsu semula... smart partnership yang akan menguntungkan both party... model camnih xder jual kt m'sia ker? aku dgr lepas nih enjin campro akan diengineer semula oleh R&D mitsu...

engine mitsu + ride & handling proton/lotus. kelas gitu....